Race Matters: A Conversation With TV Producer Mara Brock Akil
Christine Pride, left; Mara Brock Akil, right
When I was six years old, I asked my parents why there weren’t people who looked like us on TV. With books, it wasn’t an issue — I could imagine that the characters resembled me — but the rest of mainstream pop culture was almost entirely white. Even at my young age, I knew something was off. It sent a message I was only beginning to understand.
Then came The Cosby Show in 1984. It’s hard to convey the impact that series had, not only on me personally, but on the culture at large. For many white people, the sitcom was their first exposure to a family of this kind (Black people — they’re just like us!). And for many Black viewers, it was a rare opportunity to see ourselves reflected on screen. However tarnished the show’s legacy has become, its debut was a watershed moment and the start of a heyday for Black TV.
Shows like A Different World, Living Single, and The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air gave more opportunities to Black performers and storytellers. Powerhouse showrunner Mara Brock Akil got her start on one of those groundbreaking sitcoms — Moesha — and then went on to produce two decades’ worth of hit series, including Girlfriends, Being Mary Jane, and the recent adaptation of the Judy Blume novel Forever.
Now, Mara has turned to a new creative medium: books! Her debut novel, The Revelation of Dionne Daphne, follows a woman in early-90s NYC, who’s waiting for the results of an HIV test. As a longtime fan, I was thrilled to chat with Mara about her trailblazing career, conquering shame, and the enduring power of love stories…
Mara on the lot
You’ve always centered Black women in your work. When you first started, did you feel a responsibility to do so — or were you simply telling your stories?
Both. When I was in journalism school in the ’90s, there were two types of “Black” stories: either criminalization and trauma or hyper-success through sports or entertainment. The in-between experiences did not exist, and that lit a spark in me. I knew the stories of my family and community were not only underrepresented, but also valuable and universal. I made it my mission to tell stories like that.
As a writer, I’m always asking myself, ‘Who is the audience?’ You can’t write for everyone, but in competitive worlds like publishing and TV, there are gatekeepers controlling what stories get told. How do you think about who you’re writing for?
I think of culture as a dinner party, and myself as a guest. I come to the table and see myself in conversation with others, too — like painter Amy Sherald and the singer-songwriters Solange and Jazmine Sullivan (I’ve been listening a lot to her new album). For me, storytelling is about driving that conversation forward.
Mara at a book reading
I got completely sucked into your new novel, The Revelation of Dionne Daphne. What made you choose to write a book rather than a screenplay?
Quite frankly, it remains hard to sell anything centered on a Black woman in the TV/movie business. But this story had been in my mind for a long time, and when a book editor reached out to me, I wondered if it might be best told on the page. Dionne is a young, successful Black woman, in the ’90s — the era of, ‘I can do bad all by myself.’ She looks like she’s got it all together, but what is she carrying inside that we don’t see?
If you think of culture as a dinner conversation, what’s the topic you want to raise with this book?
Shame. Capitalism thrives off our shame. I think of all of us at that dinner party and wonder: What if we all lay it down? That’s what Dionne Daphne is doing. She raises her hand and says, ‘I’m going to tell you this story, laying down my shame, so I can get to who I really am.’ Maybe it’ll give someone else permission to do the same.
Your novel doesn’t shy away from tough, potentially triggering subjects. So many “Black” stories do involve pain and struggle, given the facts of history. How do you integrate that reality, while avoiding the traps of stereotype and trauma porn?
My goal is to illuminate our beauty and resilience: How we do carry so much. All the things we’ve survived. I mean, if you think about everything that’s happened to Black folks — how have we done that? We work hard to avoid getting stuck in our pain, but there’s a difference between coping and truly healing. We’re in a moment where a lot of people are trying to heal, by acknowledging their wounds and unburdening themselves. There’s power in that.
The TV series Forever
Lastly, I have to ask you about your show Forever, based on Judy Blume’s classic (and most banned!) novel about two teenagers losing their virginity. I remember hiding under the covers to re-read all the pages I’d dog-eared. You reimagined this story for television with contemporary Black characters. Tell us about that decision.
I knew I couldn’t translate Forever directly. I took the core story — two young people falling in love — and asked myself what their challenges would be now, in modern America. The book was first published in 1975, not long after the birth-control pill had become available, giving young women more agency and safety to explore their sexuality. That was the “modern” backdrop of the protagonist Katherine’s story. But what happens if you shift that perspective to a young Black boy in 2018? What does it mean for him to safely explore his sexuality? The terrain is immediately different; race becomes a factor, a different gender becomes a factor. But the innocence and spark of first love — that’s the same. I wanted to remind people that young people deserve the chance to explore and develop. Are we making space for that? Are we protecting it? Are we helping them navigate it without dire consequences? The obstacles Justin and Keisha face are familiar to all of us in today’s America. We want to root for this young Black couple, falling in love and trying to stay true to themselves.
Christine and Mara
Thank you for the excellent chat, Mara! Congratulations on your wonderful new novel. And for all you Forever fans, Mara is working on season two. I would love to hear how a book or television show has touched or shaped you. Please share in the comments…
Christine Pride is a writer, book editor, and content consultant who lives in Harlem, New York. Her latest book is All The Men I’ve Loved Again, and you can read her past Cup of Jo posts here.
P.S. More Race Matters posts, including five things I want to tell my white friends.
(Christine Pride photo at top by Yumi Matsuo for Cup of Jo. Mara Brock Akil headshot by Emma Feil.)
Tags: race matters
Comments
66 commentsFOREVER is a perfect TV show. I started watching it after reading this post, and now I cannot wait to read The Revelation of Dionne Daphne, too! Thank you, COJ and Christine Pride, for featuring Mara Brock Akil! I feel like I’ve discovered a new favorite storyteller, and I can’t wait to read her new book and revisit her old movies and TV shows.
Thank you – I just added her book to my TBR. Also, as a white woman who cares deeply about the racial issues in this world and who also acknowledges how much learning and personal work I have to do, I just want to offer a thank you for and encouragement for the continuation of these Race Matters stories. I know this particular topic is one of the less heavy ones tackled in this series, but I didn’t want this opportunity to pass by.
Girlfriends is my ultimate comfort show and tackled so many complicated relationship dynamics that sitcoms were too scared to handle with actual nuance. I’m still so mad it never got its true ending! Thank you Mara!!!
What a fantastic interview. Adding the book to my to-read list!
I can’t wait to watch Forever! Thanks for the conversation!
It’s just so inspiring to hear how someone found their “mission”. Thanks for sharing, I’ve jotted down the book and TV series!
This is so random, but I just wanted to share my experience: I an from Eastern European country and grew up in the 90s/ 00s. Surprisingly, our public tv aired all of the mentioned shows – I mostly remember watching Cosby show and Moesha on repeat. This was in a time when you rarely ever saw a black person irl here in our region. As a consequense, as a kid I was totally unaware of racism in the US. Watching the shows, I just assumed everyone ´s getting along well with each other…
Love Amy Sherald’s work, and it always stays in my head in the best way. Unrelated, silver ‘highlights’ are so gorg, Mara. And new book = congrats! Let’s all read it together in the informal COJ book club.
Thanks for this interview- I loved Moesha!
Appreciate this post so much! Thank you!
Forever was by far one of the best shows I’ve ever seen. Pitch perfect on so, so many levels. We are anxiously awaiting season 2 at our house.
Had no idea one person was behind so many wonderful shows/movies! Thank you for this interview, and I cannot wait to check out the book. And Forever — I usually don’t watch shows/movies centered on teen stories, but this sounds compelling.
FOREVER is one of my favorite TV shows of the last 5 years, may be one my favorite shows about teenage love and coming of age, ever!
Let’s not forget the best movie: Love and Basketball!! It’s a classic for me. Thank you Mara!
This movie holds a place in my heart. If it’s on TV I must watch it – whether it’s an hour in or just started.
“Capitalism thrives off our shame.” !!!! I love this — can’t wait to read the book!
What a wonderful conversation (wish we could see the long version)! In particular, I’ve been subsequently thinking a lot about the shame-capitalism connection. Thank you! Also, in case you need another rabbit hole to go down … does anyone else remember Ms. Brock Akil’s house tour in the old Domino magazine?!? I donated my set of those old magazines to a library last year, but only after I photocopied her house tour. I love every inch of it … the colors, the big, word-y art by the front door, the floors and rugs, tiles, furniture, the gorgeous (and glam, for me) golden bedspread,her darling child’s boots-and-pajamas outfit, her career …! Haven’t yet tried to find her house tour online, but hope it is so you all can see it, too. Beautiful! Congratulations on that and all your success, Ms. Brock Akil! Can I Be Anonymous Today?
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2025/06/17/realestate/mara-brock-akil-condo-nyc.html
Thanks, Marija. :) Beautiful home, but not the one I was referring to. It is/was her home somewhere in Los Angeles, and featured in Domino magazine probably a dozen or maybe fifteen years ago. After posting my earlier comment, I went looking online for that house tour and sadly couldn’t find it (but I am not very tech-y so maybe you and other people can find it …? Hope so; it was beautiful!). Anyway, thanks again for the link and your help. Hope you are having a great week!
I often think about how as a middle-class white family, we never watched anything with black representation. Obviously as a kid, I didn’t notice it at the time. But I later realized that my dad’s quiet racism is what steered that. It wasn’t even like we were trying to watch shows with POC and were told not to – we just never did. Now as an adult, I can see how that limited my world view and wish my parents had been open to it. Even recently, I have seen examples of that quiet racism from my dad and I am glad I don’t follow that way of thinking.
Thank you for this. I loved hearing from someone who has done so much to bring better representation to TV.
I loved this interview!
I was a big fan of Living Single. I remember being enamored with these women who were so smart, driven, funny and fresh. This interview was thoughtful, informative and timely. Thank you for sharing! (And I hesitate to say this because I don’t want to minimize the seriousness and gravity of the subject matter, but I’d be remiss if I didn’t celebrate the absolute chic-ness that oozes from M & C. Such style! Such class!).
Great interview. I can’t wait to read the book.
Love these posts but Mara is so interesting! As a white Irish 90’s kid raised on US kids shows, I religiously watched Moesha, the Fresh Prince, Sister Sister, Kenan and Kel and more. These shows brought diversity to my very non-diverse life, setting me up to be a more empathetic person to people who have a different experience to me. Thank you Mara for helping create those foundations!
Thank you for this! I first heard about Mara on Oprah’s podcast (very good interview, too!) and now on CoJ. What an inspiration. I can’t wait to get the book :)
Wonderful conversation! Looking forward to reading the book too.
As a Black mother who attended NU and has a teen son, Forever resonated deeply with me. I appreciate Mara’s ability to address Black culture while also connecting with universal emotions and experiences we can all relate to. I placed a hold on the book the moment it was available at my local library. I can’t wait to read it.
Agreed, Tiffany- I related to it deeply as a Black mother with two college-age children, down to wishing so much for them to attend my alma mater and vacationing at Oaks Bluff. What beautiful and soulful series. I’m thinking of hosting a book club for Dionne Daphne.
Loved this conversation. Adding Mara’s novel to my TBR so fast!
Great interview and would love to read more from Christine!
What a powerful conversation between 2 amazing women. The capitalism/shame truth really hits hard. It is so true, and so important. Especially now. I loved this. (and may I just also say, they are stunning.)
Love this and will check out Mara’s new book! I was a big fan of Being Mary Jane back in the day.
I want to be Mara when I grow up!
Same here!!! Thanks for reading!
What a fabulous collection of talents all rolled into a single person! I was not familiar with Ms. Akil before, and I love this. Thank you for sharing!
Wow, I loved this article. More like this please!
Absolutely. More Christine, more articles like this.
Loved this interview! I just added the book to my hold list! I’m number 17. Please feature Christine more often.
Awww, I love these comments, and I love being part of the CoJ team/community!
Love this interview! More of this, please!
I’m excited to watch Forever!
After reading that intro did I go back and watch a few That’s So Raven episodes? Yes. Yes, I did. Just put the book on hold!
“Capitalism thrives off shame” What a profoundly guiding quote. Thank you.
Thanks for this conversation. I believe race is an important topic, now more than ever, especially here in America. I’m 65+ and cannot believe the harm and hurt this adminstration has brought to this country … we came so far and now … I just shake my head some days because I can’t believe it. On a more positive note, I can’t wait to read Mara’s new book!
Same, same.
This administration did not create the America we’re living in, the America we’re living in created this administration. Many of us with white/wealth privilege are now seeing things clearly for the first time in decades, only because this admin is not hiding or coding the hatred and injustice that has existed for our entire history.
As a black woman born in the 70’s in the South, I wholeheartedly disagree that race is an important topic. I also never asked why there was no one on TV that shared my skin color because I saw it all the time. I grew up in an affluent black neighborhood and am so grateful I wasn’t taught to be a victim.
Christine Pride never misses! So excited to read and watch more of Mara Brock Akil’s work. Related: a long, long time ago, I wrote a post about overwhelmingly White TV shows and how much diversity had declined since Moesha’s heyday: https://smoothliminal.com/2012/03/28/how-mad-men-exemplifies-everything-wrong-with-television-today/ And now I have to go listen to the Moesha theme song : )
Just read your article! So great!
Jessica, thank you so much! You made my day!
Road trip novel! Dionne Daphne already sounded intriguing, but man do I love a road trip novel. Say no more. Hold placed. Thanks for the interview! Great questions; great answers. I only wish it were longer :) I’m going to be sitting with the dinner conversation analogy for a while – such a good visualization. I could settle into a whole discussion of taking a novel from the ’70’s, gender-flipping and layering race, then adapting for tv, and presenting to a new generation. Cheers to getting the full range of in-between experiences on page and screen!
I love that visual too! Hard to even begin to imagine the changes that would bring to the world. Excited to read a book with that as the inspiration. Loved the convo, always excited when I see Christine’s name on a new post!
Thank you, Mara and Christine, for this spirit-filling conversation. What a gift “Shame. Capitalism thrives off our shame. I think of all of us at that dinner party and wonder: What if we all lay it down?” As someone navigating caregiving and perimenopause while raising tweens/teens and working full-time, it’s so easy to get consumed with low vibe energy like shame, guilt, resentment, despair, hopelessness. But what would happen if I put it all down? What would my body feel like if I put all those emotions down? To see women affirmed in their divine energy, collaborating and creating, it gives me courage and hope. Thank you, Christine and Mara, for sharing your important experiences, insights, and light 🙏🏽And side note: your style and skin glow!!👏🏽🔥🫶🏽
I remember watching Cosby with my best friend and her family whenever I slept over, it was definitely Event with a capital E television. Diversity in all areas should be our strength! We are better when we include and uplift each other. Great interview.
Both her book and Forever sound soooo good. Really excited to check out both!!
Wow–what a chat! While I can’t wait to read the book, there were so many things in this interview I want to think and talk about. The link between capitalism and shame? I want to know ALL Mara’s thoughts on that!
I’m white and agree that it’s been a super weird absence over the last few decades. I grew up in the 70’s in an affluent white area and our whole family watch “The Jeffersons, Good Times, Sanford and Son and What’s Happening, and The Cosby Show, along with all the other tv out there, as part of our regular tv nights. We did not know any black people socially. It seemed totally normal and I didn’t feel like I was watching “black” families, just, families different than my own but who cared? I took it for granted that all families were different so that was totally irrelevant to me then. It’s only now that I have to ask, for others who grew up in the 70’s, was that normal or were we an odd white family, lol?
I watched those shows too. It was normal.
I was surprised she didn’t mention those shows, actually. We watched them.
My whole family watched Cosby, and Family Matters, and occasionally Fresh Prince and we watched very little TV so this was probably a good 50% of my television viewing most weeks. TGIF was appointment viewing!!
So true. I lived in a pretty white town, and the Cosby Show, Different World, Family Matters, Fresh Prince plot lines were all a big part of our playground chit chat growing up
Love this conversation! Looking forward to reading Dionne Daphne!
Love this interview! Can’t wait to read the book!
Can’t wait to read Dionne Daphne! 🙌🏽✊🏾
Just placed a hold for The Revelation of Dionne Daphne at the library. Can’t wait to read it!!