12 Questions for a Grief Therapist
In Cup of Jo’s newly relaunched career column, we ask people to share the big and small lessons they’ve learned on the job.
Grief therapist Natalie Greenberg runs her own practice in Manhattan and works with students at the NYU Counseling Center. She tells us what people don’t realize about grief and how strangers react to her job at dinner parties…
When were you first drawn to therapy?
When I was a kid, my father was an addict, and our family attended Al-Anon, a support group for families and friends of addicts. He’s now been sober for 17 years, but I always understood that therapy was a resource for people during difficult times.
Did you always know you’d become a therapist yourself?
Not at all. After graduating college with a communications degree, I nannied for a family and took a year to figure out what I wanted to do next. During my free time, I set up phone calls with my friends’ parents and interviewed them about their jobs, asking ‘What was your degree? How did you decide to do this? What are the pros and cons of your career?’ And that’s how I learned about social work, and how it has career paths that are similar to psychology, but has more of a social justice lens.
How did you choose to specialize in grief?
At age 23, I lost my mom to suicide. I had no idea how to process her death, and I didn’t know if I was allowed to talk about it with family and friends. Especially because suicide felt like a scary taboo subject. So, when it came to choosing a therapy specialty, I sat down and thought, ‘What is something that I feel especially equipped to help with?’ Grief came to me very quickly.
How do strangers at parties react when they hear you’re a grief therapist?
It’s a funny litmus test! People either ask a million questions or change the subject right away. People also sometimes say, ‘You’re going to psychoanalyze me!’ And, sure, it’s ingrained in me to look out for patterns. But at the same time, psychoanalyzing is work, and I don’t want to work at a party.
What’s the most challenging job you’ve had?
I worked in the Psychiatric ER at Bellevue, the busiest psychiatric hospital in the country. At first, the idea of working there terrified me, but I learned so much. During my second month, Hurricane Sandy flooded the hospital, and I saw firsthand how a hospital operates during a natural disaster. I also learned how to work in a violent setting, since some patients would come in while intoxicated or psychotic and injure our staff. Going to therapy while working there was key for my own mental health.
You lost your mom at 23. What advice would you give young people who are grieving?
Losing my mother so young was extremely isolating. None of my friends had gone through anything similar; they didn’t know how to show up, and I didn’t know how to communicate my needs. I ended up attending a grief group called The Dinner Party, an organization that hosts dinners for young people who have lost family or friends. It felt so good to be able to talk with people my age about the grieving process without stigma. I’m obsessed with the organization and refer them to many of my clients.
Tell us about a work moment you’ll always remember.
Once during a session, a patient was describing a loss, and I started crying. Afterward I was very insecure and wondered whether I’d acted unprofessionally. My clinical supervisor reassured me, ‘You’re a therapist, but you’re also a human, and you’re responding to something really sad. What more could someone want than for their therapist to be human?’ That moment shifted my idea of how a therapist should show up for their patients, and validate them. In the early days of psychoanalysis, therapists were primarily men who acted like a blank slate. Those types of therapists still exist in some capacity, but that’s not who I am and that’s not the kind of therapist I want to be.
What’s your #1 advice for someone who’s interested in becoming a therapist?
You can be good at therapy but you also need to learn how to run a small business. You need to be organized. You need an accountant and lawyer. You need to know how to hustle.
How can we show up for friends who are grieving loved ones?
Grief lingers and can manifest on random days. So, keep checking in on your friends weeks, months, and even years afterward. For friends and family, I’ll put the death anniversaries of their loved ones in my calendar, so I’ll remember to reach out. Also, come up with your own saying, other than ‘Sorry for your loss’ because it can feel empty. It can be hard to find the right words, but to try to say something a little more genuine — like what you remember about that person, or even acknowledging that you don’t know what to say but you are here for them.
How has your own grief for your mom changed through the years?
My relationship with her has healed a lot since her passing. We weren’t close when I was growing up, but now that I’ve experienced the stresses of adulthood and parenthood, I can better understand her life and see how certain traumas affected her parenting. It’s easier to take her off the parent pedestal and see her more as a human who went through hard things.
That’s beautiful.
Since her death, I’ve had dreams where she’s there with me. In those dreams, it doesn’t feel contentious. Instead, it’s always calm and healing, and we talk about unresolved issues. And when I wake up, I feel relieved knowing that my subconscious wasn’t angry or blaming — it’s trying to work things out.
If someone’s grief feels overwhelming, what advice would you give?
I like to help clients come up with meaningful rituals that memorialize this person. When it’s my mom’s birthday or death anniversary, I buy the Le Petit Écolier chocolate biscuit cookies that she loved, then light a Yahrzeit candle and listen to Fleetwood Mac. The ritual doesn’t have to be formal, it’s all about honoring the person that you lost.
Thank you so much, Natalie. What other careers would you like to see featured?
P.S. What it’s like to be a baker and how to navigate a career change.
(Photo illustration by Diana Moss.)
Comments
152 commentsRevisiting the “grief” posts of the past as I comfort a young single mom friend who has had a heavy year. Lost her dad to cancer, her mother passed shortly after while sleeping, and now her brother has taken his life. Time on this Earth is so precious and fleeting. So important to take care of one another. Virtual hug for any other readers going through loss.
Hi Joanna! I just had an idea – I would love to see a post (100 posts?) about what its like to be a female Councilmember, Senator, House representative, what it’s like to run for office, tips on how to run for office, etc. Our future president might be a Cup of Jo reader! Women need to be told a bunch of times to run and I think you’re a great person to tell them. Thank you thank you for all you do.
OMG yes! I love this idea. So interesting!
A dear friend always says: grieving is not linear. Unapologetically give yourself permission to grieve. Grieving is a gift to your current and future self. No one gets to tell you how to process your loss.
Natalie – what a gift it was to read your story and learn about the work you do. Much of it resonated with me. I lost my Dad young and on his death anniversary we make ribs and listen to Bob Seger – reading how you honour your Mom really hit home!
I lost my FIL, whom I adored and taught me so much about being a good human last summer. His wife passed this month. We all lost their son a few years ago in a tragic situation that came out of nowhere. His son was like his best friend, and he was completely broken at first. He just looked like someone had punched him in the stomach. Somehow, despite all his sadness and grief, he was such a light. He truly taught me how to celebrate everyday, how to marvel at anything. He kept the family together and was a beacon in his community. Last week was my MILs service, and I was shocked at how many of his friends came, just to support our family. I miss him so much, but having people who have lost the same person just come to our events feels like he’s almost here, in a way. Truly touching. I’ll never forget them or him.
I lost my father when I was only in my 20s. And then I unexpectedly, suddenly lost my sister two years ago – which was traumatizing in itself, and also reminded me of my previous trauma of losing my dad. Shoutout to my therapist who has been helping me process everything.
I also lost my mom as a very young adult and playing Fleetwood Mac is a part of my ritual too ❤️
So interesting to read about a niche professional, who was inspired by her own life experience to follow a path which is clearly quite fulfilling, AND it sounds challenging as well. Really appreciate this article. Thank you.
“Losing my mother so young was extremely isolating. None of my friends had gone through anything similar; they didn’t know how to show up, and I didn’t know how to communicate my needs.” This hit home for me. Not for a death sort of loss, but I was an adult when my parents divorced, and I felt the same way. Mostly I know friends whose parents divorced when they were a kid, which is similar, but the parent-child dynamic is really different when there is a split later in life.
I can’t even begin to express how important my therapist has been to me through my dad’s illness and death. She cried with me when he did pass and I just want to share that it was meaningful for me. So often in grief you just want to be seen, and her crying too was that for me.
Thank you so much Natalie and Cup of Jo for this wonderful post. I read through every comment last night and read another article about grief today. I lost my sweet brother in October 2024 to early onset Alzheimer’s and today is the death anniversary of my dad. I was 21 when my dad passed away. I lost my mom nine years after my dad and three years later I lost my oldest sister to ALS. For each loss the grieving was so different. Losing my brother four months ago, I can only describe as so lonely. I had anticipatory grief for so long and talked about my brother all the time. Now that he is gone, I really only feel comfortable talking to his wife. I still have another brother and sister but I’m really surprised that I’m not sharing my grief with them. I live in a different state from the rest of my family so that adds to the loneliness. I don’t remember feeling this way when I lost my other family members. Does this loneliness resonate with anyone else. I wish all who are grieving peace.
Dear Tricia, I can’t say this resonates with me but I do want to say I’m sending you lots of peace and love as you navigate your grief. Holding you in my thoughts. xx
Absolutely beautiful life and work. Thank you for sharing this.
Loved this post – thank you for interviewing her! I would also love to see career posts from someone who did a complete shift and changed careers. Or retirees looking back on their careers too.
Thank you for your work, Natalie! I’m so grateful that it’s now possible to access more affordable therapy at this current stage of my fiances. If anyone’s curious, I’ve worked with two intern therapists through Alli, and can’t speak highly enough of the care I received. Since it feels like a grief of sorts, one of the last topics we explored was my mother’s Dementia. When my intern started tearing up at my story, at first I felt stunned. Like Natalie said, we’re so often used to men reacting in a neutral fashion. At times, that can feel cold! Having this woman see and validate my sadness was a key factor in gaining emotional regulation over what is happening. I’m grateful to the hardworking folks in this field. This is going to be a great column.
What a great profile. Natalie, thank you for your work and for sharing your experiences so candidly! I’m rethinking how I want to honor my dad after reading about the cookies and Fleetwood Mac.
A kindred spirit! I also lost my mom to suicide when I was 23 and now work as a psychologist specializing in grief support. So appreciate your thoughtfulness, Natalie, and you being an ambassador for mental health support.
oooh, it would be fun to hear what a book editor, screenwriter, or fine artist’s days look like! i’ve always been curious about how creative people who have managed to make their art a full time job think about work. like it must be so much fun…but it’s also still work?
I would like to see an OB-gyn, a midwife and a full time freelance journalist
Please highlight federal workers. We are reeling, under attack, getting fired – and the public has no idea how much we do – from the diplomats to aid deliverers to the prosecutors to the aerospace engineers to the nuclear scientists to the Medicaid processors to the VA nurses to the park rangers to the SNAP administrators (and I’ve just named my friends’ jobs now – there are so many more examples) – the loss of expertise, institutional knowledge, and sheer humanity is staggering.
Fed employee here, I was just fired this weekend :( I worked on the affordable care act and focused on getting people access to quality health insurance
Just seconding this sentiment!
Yes please! Also the people like myself who work for non profits implementing federal contracts. We haven’t been working since January. I’m so angry at my job being stolen from me. We were doing important, meaningful work that was just abruptly ended.
I whole heartedly support this. Many of my colleagues were impacted by the dismantling of USAID and the federal cuts. I think this blog has incredible reach, and it is important to showcase the work that these people do, learn about them, and support them in what comes next. Maybe someone who reads this will have a job opening for their type of skills, or maybe someone who supports these cuts may feel differently once they read a story that humanizes these workers.
Experiencing a sudden loss in the family this week and this interview is so timely. I sent the link to the Dinner Party to my grieving cousin, grateful that they offer virtual gatherings. Thank you Natalie for bringing awareness, and to Cup of Jo for not shying away from these topics.
Not a person…but we had to very sadly say goodbye to our beloved family dog of 13 years yesterday. It was a rare day that I didn’t check on COJ, so to see this article upon my return today was like a hug.
I’m so sorry. We had to say goodbye to our dog of 10 years back in September and I still miss him fiercely.
I’m sorry for your loss, Jess. It’s such an important relationship we have with them.
Thank you both for this post. I’ve added The Dinner Party to the list of organizations I want to donate to when I can. It sounds like such an amazing idea, something I could have used at some points in my life – and maybe I still do, in spite of my losses not being recent. I don’t think I’ve ever given my grief the space it deserves.
My therapist once cried in a session and it made me feel really cared for. Great series Cup of Jo, I’d love to hear from a farmer or a pro athlete.
I feel redeemed by the bursts of frantic note taking. They sit and listen calmly and then you say a thing that is really bad but you’ve been convinced it’s not and then the therapist starts furiously scribbling – ahhh so it WAS a big deal.
When my brother died of a fetanyl overdose six years ago, my dear friend dropped everything to fly across the country and be me with me. I can’t recall that she had anything particularly special to say but the love I felt from her has outlasted my grief. That feeling of love and care really helped me see that grief is love’s other side. My advice to those looking to comfort a grieving friend is to just show up.
As someone who had a sibling die in 2018, I echo this comment. I do not remember much about what people said to me in my haze of grief, but I remember the people who showed up (whether in person or via calls) and tried to support me.
My dad passed 9.5 years ago and I miss him a ton. He loved McDs breakfasts and on the day he passed and on his birthday, my whole family (which also includes my siblings/their family and my mom) will go to McDs and take a selfie and send it to the group chat. We live in different cities and time zones but I love seeing those photos pop up honouring my dad. And it’s a great excuse to eat McDs. :)
hi! longtime CoJ reader, and big fan here. i have never pitched myself but love this and figured why not shoot my shot!? i am a kindergarten teacher and i feel the importance of my profession in my bones, always have. it is a career that a person is created to embrace and born to embody. kindergarten is where we have the opportunity to lay the smoothest (or cracked) foundation upon which all else…yes, i do mean academics AND graceful humanity, upon. with all the uproar in the area of education i would be honored to be considered as one to share here in the (what is clear to become legendary) career column…thank you.
I would love to hear your thoughts in a career column!
second this!!
I’d love to read your column! I’m a child-free 38 year old, and I *still* vividly remember how my favorite elementary school teachers made me feel. It’s a privilege to be cared for by a great teacher.
High school counselor here! YES to spotlighting careers in education, especially those who work with our youngest students. Elementary school teachers do not get the respect they deserve. With everything going on in public schools right now, it’s so important to hear the voices of educators.
Third this! I am a teacher and administrator at an independent school and teachers’ days would be a great read for all and a helpful read for parents, I think.
Choose Linda!
My adult son died a year ago from accidental fentanyl poisoning. People tell me I’m “strong” but I don’t know how to take that. I guess they think it’s unusual that I try to survive?
I’m so sorry Leslie. One of my dearest friends lost her son Matthew to accidental fentanyl poisoning in May. She and her husband are “doing the work” to heal, as she says. She has found these two podcasts helpful: “All There Is with Anderson Cooper” and “Always Andy’s Mom.”
You might not feel strong Leslie, but to me merely existing in the face of immense grief takes an incredible amount of strength. Hopefully when people say that they are witnessing your struggle and how difficult it is.
when they say that, they’re thinking more about themselves than about you, i think. they don’t know how they would get through it, because it’s truly impossible to know unless it happens to you. when it does, you have to choose some way forward; you’re forced to. they don’t get that they would be, too. i think that’s true of all loss, though i’m guessing there is some real and painful isolation unique to life after losing a child. it doesn’t feel good to be so commonly set apart from people around you who now think of you as different when they once didn’t. lots of love to you.
I lost my brother two years ago. Your comment and the replies helped me put in words some of my feelings about my and my parents’ loss and the way people around us react. It’s a truly isolating experience even when surrounded by people who mean well.
I think people mean it as a compliment, but it feels weird and I get it (my sister died several years ago). I don’t feel strong, I am just trying my best to get through each day. I dislike when people tell me that they cannot imagine how I do it. It feels condescending and most of us can imagine different what ifs. I feel like people are saying that they do not want to imagine and that feels isolating.
Im sorry Leslie thats awful and such a shocking sad thing to lose your son like that I think thats what people are afraid to say like somehow saying it will make it worse We get so conditioned to try to make people feel better rather than just let them feel My best friend and I lost each lost our Dads around the same time and we would say things like “this sucks” and “grief is a bitch” As well as talking about our Dads and how the grief we felt was so big because the love was so big. I hope you’re able to find someone to let you feel and show up for you.
Thank you for all commenters who offered solace to those of us going through grief.
I’m a grief counselor (social worker too) and everything that Natalie shared is on point. The advice I share often is that presence is a powerful gift others can give to those who are grieving. To not cure, not heal, not fix (because loss is unfixable) but be a friend who will sit by and be present is the most important thing.
Given what’s happening in our country to federal workers, I’d love to see a spotlight on some federal workers.
I agree! I think so many people do not understand the federal workforce.
+1!
Thank you for this lovely interview. I’m struck by how intentional her career path was … As opposed to my own zig-zagging! I wanted to share this with all of you because it has been so helpful to me… It’s from Martha Beck: “I’ve lost the idea that love cannot survive permanent separation. I remember when I thought separation was real. Then I was separated, by misfortune, choice, or death, from many of the people and things I loved most. The love never budged. Here it still is, right now. Every moment of connection left me with treasure I hold in my heart the way you might fill your hands with rubies and diamonds and gold. Love is impervious to space and time. Every moment of love I’ve ever felt is still here, now, mine to keep.” Source: https://marthabeck.com/2022/11/the-stunning-surprise-of-age-and-the-overwhelming-gratitude-that-comes-along-with-it/
Thank you so much for this. I feel this very much about my mom’s love after she passed over a year ago. Also, I adore Martha Beck and have many quotes of hers in my head from over the years. This is just beautiful!!
What a touching interview. Natalie, you sound like a wonderful therapist that anyone would be lucky to have. I wish more people were this thoughtful and humane. As for careers I’d love to see a recruiter on advice with how a stay at home mom or anyone for that matter, can navigate getting back into the workforce, especially in such a technology driven society. Also, as someone who doesn’t have an already established career and isn’t sure what professional direction to take.
I am also reentering the workforce after staying home for a number of years and it’s daunting! Would love to hear advice from someone who’s gone through the process, especially with a career change.
I do not have direct experience going through what you are, but I work at a non-profit and do a lot of hiring so I can give perspective on what I look for. My advice is to teach yourself as much as you can – there are a lot of books/courses/resources freely available and I always appreciate someone who takes the initiative to learn (this could also expose what you like/don’t like and help direct your search). Also nonprofits have a lot of volunteer opportunities to build your resume (often in the office or on committees/boards) and they are an opportunity to more directly experience different jobs/career paths.
Yes to this!
I find that grieving is so complicated as it not only takes on different forms for different people but it has a lot to do with culture and background too… I have lost two brothers (one to cancer) so I am familiar with grief and loss. I too put the death dates from loved ones of friends in my calendar so they never have to feel as alone as I felt. But! A Russian-German friend of mine who lost her sister during Covid was recently going through the anniversary of her sister’s death. I only found out after the exact date (we became friends after her loss) and apologised for being unaware and not only that, mentioned the date to a mutual friend of ours. When my friend found out, she was so angry and hurt at me… it completely took me by surprise. I truly apologised as hurting her in her moment of sadness was the last thing I wanted to do… I explained how I approach death and grieving and that however hurtful it was for her, that I meant well and that it was perhaps a cultural misunderstanding. She accepted my apology but told me that grief and anniversaries of passing are for family only and she hadn’t even wanted me to know. She was shocked that I not only openly remember my brothers but am happy when people remember them with me and that I like to remember my friends’ loved ones too. It was a big lesson in friendship, grieving and culture for me. What will be right for one person, might not be right for the other… Loss is so, so hard in so, so many different ways ♥️
Thank you for this fascinating insight into Natalie’s work. I look forward to the rest of this series! In case it might be helpful to anyone else, an illustrated book that I often give to bereaved people is called Surviving the Tsunami of Grief: http://www.tsunamiofgrief.com
What a beautiful post, thank you. In my family, we are preparing for new grief as my 9 year old niece just got a terminal diagnosis. It’s such a shock and we feel utterly helpless. Does someone here have advice or experience on how to support her parents through this? They know they have to let her brilliant, smart, kind, funny, strong girl go in a few months. But how do you do that as a parent? And how do you live on afterwards?
Hi Cee, just wanted to say how very sorry I am and I’ll be thinking not only about your niece, but her parents and you as well while you are all trying to navigate this. Sending you lots of love and hugs <3
Oh Cee, I hope your family can find resources to help you through this unimaginable process and eventual loss. I am so sorry and send you so much love.
I’m so sorry, how devastating. I’m also a social worker in palliative care, and have some tips. One, don’t fixate on “supporting.” This is such a horrible loss that there isn’t actually much that can be done, but what you can do is be there and regularly show up. A lot of people struggle once there are no more to-dos, so just being a comforting presence can mean the world. This can mean showing up with food, babysitting if they have other children, offering up any unique talents (maybe you are great at manicures – offer to give one to your niece!). Really just showing up, whatever that looks like (and might be just sitting in silence with the parents). Another tip – I’d start making a list of all the little things you have noticed/love about your niece. Maybe it’s the precise way she likes her pasta cooked or the TV show she was obsessed with three years ago. Keep this list, and use it in future. A lot of people will forget these little details, but being able to tell the parents in two years, three years, five years, that you are thinking about your niece because you saw a particular stuffed animal or whatever will mean a lot. It is hard enough to lose a child, but you can help the parents know that her memory is not forgotten.
Hi Cee, My most sincere condolences for this unbearably shitty thing your family is going through. I’m not a parent who has lost a child, but I lost a sister-friend in my early 20s and this is what I learned as we were going through it and in the decade since: When you’re with them between now and then, be present and content with whatever your niece is up for. I spent hours watching movies and taking sofa naps with L and her parents, meeting them where they were and loving the time together. Those last few months especially were so tender, so terrible, so sacred. Don’t stop showing up for them, but show up with zero expectations. In the decade since L found her way on, her parents and I have stayed close. I know as much as I’m thinking about her, they’re thinking about her more. There’s never a moment I hesitate to call or text with a song or memory or joke that I think she would’ve loved, or to reach out from my own grief and let them know I’m aching with love I can’t give her. She is never far from us, and I love how easy it has become for us to include her so casually in conversation. Reading over this, it doesn’t seem like much, but it feels like everything. Sending you love and peace and rage against the unfairness and devastation of this diagnosis.
The Conversation Project has a lot of really great resources for talking about grief and documenting what matters most, I found out about them through @thefaruqui5 who has a medically complex child in hospice and discusses anticipatory grief.
I’m so sorry Cee. It may be helpful to search the words ‘anticipatory grief’ to help understand what you and your family and wider network might be experiencing right now. I will keep you in my thoughts.
Thank you Jessi, Kristin, Kate, Madeline, Alexa, and Susie. For your words and for opening your hearts. I appreciate the ideas and experiences you share and will keep them close. CoJ comments section, the home of kindness.
Thanks for this series, looking forward to this! Natalie comes across as so articulate and lovely in this interview. Thanks for your thoughts, Natalie! I dread losing the most important ppl in my life but it’s so good to see that there is help. Right now, I’m in the middle of studying postgrad bibliotherapy (literary therapy). This is not a clinical path, but I decided at the very beginning of my studies that adding a dedicated grief counselling course will be essential to prepare for leading groups.
How punctually poignant a profile to discover as I navigate toddler life while pursuing my Master’s degree to become a therapist in my thirties—a career shift born from the loss of stillborn twins three years ago and begun last year, when my twins’ little brother was only a few months old. My hope is to eventually work with those who experience pregnancy or child loss as well as those navigating alternative paths to parenthood, with grief being a central focus. Grateful to glean such timely insights—thank you Natalie for offering a glimpse into the work you do, and the Cup of Jo team for making the space for such stories.
Wow, this was really amazing. I am wondering if anyone knows of a grief “Dinner Party” equivalent group in Canada? What an incredibly healing experience it would be to attend and belong to a group that understands and is working through grief. Thank you for sharing.
I’ll never forget the time my therapist started crying as I told her a story of loss from my life. It touched me immensely and made me feel SO seen. It’s stuck with me always.
I finished a PhD two weeks ago, 3 months before my 40th birthday. I’ve spent the last 7 years working on it, with two kids and a full-time job throughout. It was tremendously challenging, but I’m now a college professor, which I love so much that it doesn’t even feel like work to me. For the 15 years prior, I owned and operated a business in NYC, which drained me of every ounce of energy and enthusiasm that I had. This total change of career and life trajectory has delighted me more than I could have ever imagined. I am all for more posts like this, to encourage everyone to think about what kind of career deeply resonates with them, take the leap, and focus on something that they love. We spend so much of our lives working. I have often told myself, the time is going to pass anyway. You may as well be working toward something that will bring you toward more meaning and fulfillment.
That’s incredible, BAA! I want to hear more about your PhD! Amazing! Go you!
I’m a nurse and fairly often patients start telling me about people they’ve lost. I always ask “where do you go/what do you do that makes you feel close to them?” and if it is something simple like “the kitchen” I tell them I’ll think of their person next time I’m in the kitchen.
I love this, Emmy Rae <3
That is really thoughtful, Emmy Rae! You sound like an amazing nurse.
This is so perfect, thank you!
What a wonderful interview. My husband died young to cancer and having a therapist who specializes in grief has been critical as I navigate becoming a widow before 40, step-parenting in the wake of his death, and processing my own complex experience with his cancer diagnosis and treatment. While I am now a few years since his death, it still feels like these are the early days of grief. The advice for friends is spot on — grief doesn’t vanish after a year, and it means so much for friends to simply ask how I’m doing or to say his name in conversation.
Love the idea to include more career profiles. I’d love to see a gardener, a park ranger, women in trades, a librarian, a physician. But I’d especially love to hear from people who have made radical midlife career changes—I need inspiration!
Seconding the interest in midlife career changes! Especially for those of us who have jobs that from the outside seem like it would be crazy to leave them.
I did that!! I became a UX researcher at the age of 48. I love it!!
@STE, exaaactly my life right now. Golden handcuffs, I call them. A great job with nothing really wrong with it except that I don’t want to do it anymore. The challenge is that I feel brave enough to follow my bliss, but…I’m not sure I know what that is? (Also, apologies for saying LOVE so much in my original post. Too much. Synonyms.).
I went from Accountant to Library Assistant (not official Librarian..yet) at age 50! It can be done!
Second–third?–fourth?! this idea. I didn’t even realize there had been a career feature on COJ. I have a career that I did love for a long time, and now I’m trying to decide if the apathy/disgruntlement I’m feeling as I commute in every day is just a mid-life slump or if it really is time to try something new. And if so…what? After you’ve had years of really liking your job, it’s hard to settle for going-through-the-motions.
no such thing as too much love!! <3 <3 <3
the grief therapist I went to after my parent’s sudden death was so valuable and helpful to me. I’m so grateful I was able to access grief therapy through low-cost sliding scale programs at my university. . It has now been about 7 years, but when I look back on that period- that horrible, cloudy first year, I am so comforted by her- Cheers Dr. R I still love you in my heart!
My mom died last week. While we had our issues (we were bad at communicating with each other) now that she’s gone, it’s easier to reflect on her positive attributes. And to acknowledge her sacrifices as a mom (as I’m a mom to a young child myself. This article was fantastic.
oh, friend, I’m so so sorry.
Anon, wishing you peace.
If anyone who has lost a parent is interested in mentoring children who have lost their parent(s), look up https://weareempower.org/
i clicked the volunteer button so fast!!!!!
I didn’t understand grief/know how to be with the grieving until my dad died at the beginning of Covid. It’s not like I’m an expert now, but I do have a line instead of “I’m sorry for your loss.” In Jewish tradition we say “May their memory be a blessing” and I really love that. It works for anyone and everyone, including pets!, and even when the relationship was complicated (like mine with my dad). Another thing that was wonderful was when people would share things they remembered about my dad or things they loved about my dad. It made me feel like he wouldn’t be forgotten. I think sometimes people think speaking about the deceased will make their grieving loved ones feel worse, but at least for me, I found myself wanting to talk about my dad so much, and if someone was open to listening/reminiscing with me, that meant a lot.
Beautiful and comforting!
Natalie, This was a beautiful, heartfelt post. Thank you for sharing your story and how it shaped your career path. Loosing my father to cancer just after my 19th birthday had a similar effect. After he died I took out my anger and grief on cancer. I became an oncology nurse and 40+ years later, I can say, the worst thing that happened to me lead to a career I have loved.
Muff, you were able to take such a terrible thing and turn it around. I commend you.
LOVED this post and am so excited for this column! What a great way for someone to share what they do and why, coupled with incredible, practical advice. And as someone who also lost their mom at 22, that much more touching. Brava.
Question for all you wise people: I have a friend who I have tried to support through grief as best I could. Reached out on anniversaries for several years, asked about the deceased, talked about life and other stuff when they didn’t want to talk just about grief. I had my own experience with loss and grief a few years ago and it felt like they forgot about it within a few weeks. It was quickly overshadowed by other stressors in their life. This has caused me to pull away because I don’t feel very well supported by them, and the relationship is feeling more like an energy drain on me. I guess my question is how would you proceed? I know they’ve noticed me pull away, and I feel bad about that, but I’m not sure if it feels worth explaining my side
I think everyone processes grief differently. For me, grief is a very introspective process and not something I want to discuss with people outside of the close circle also grieving that lost loved one. Also, perhaps because I lost several close family members very early in my life, death feels like a natural, obvious part of life and not something to dwell on after the initial few weeks of grief. While I know friends who do this are well-intentioned and doing it out of love, checks-ins and reminders of the loved one I lost long after the loss actually make me feel more sad and somehow also make me feel guilty, like I must not have loved the person I lost enough if I am not commemorating every anniversary of their death. I don’t know your friend or the situation, so I apologize if this is way off base, but it sounds like your friend might process grief more like me. They might not realize that your grief process looks different from theirs and that you needed them in a different way than they needed you. Perhaps you and your friend are just speaking different “grief languages.”
i think your friendship deserves a chance and you deserve an answer. i’d just ask them what happened and tell them how you feel.
I’m so sorry you’re hurting. The friends who were there for us in grief are such lifelines. .its painful to feel left behind, or forgotten. I hope there are people who can see your needs clearly. People who haven’t lived through it don’t understand that its forever, and even if they have their own losses. . people are different. With love, please tell your friend you are still grieving. She might think you are very strong, and not get it. .that you still need gentle caring and love. She might be. . self absorbed. But she might just need a conversation. and if you pull away, she might not connect the dots that you need more from her, and think you need space from her. Just try saying what you want, with care.
Hi, I will back what others have already said here: have a honest conversation. Tell your friend how you tried to be there for them and what you fell is lacking for you. Maybe they are not able to give it to you – most people are grief illeterate – even when they’ve experienced grief themselves. And there are zillions of different ways to grief…which adds confusion to people who would llike too support you but do not know how. People are not taught how to grief, how to support grief and how to live with death and grief. Many people do not know how to be a space for other’s griefing. Or do not have the emotional energy, or the capacity to be there without been drained by other people’s sorrow. Honestly, I have experienced grief many times and It has never been the closest friends or family who best supported me. I know they love me, but they just weren’t good at being there for me. There are support groups for grief. There are even online support groups (Tender hearts and others). Please check them out.
Hi Anon, Fellow griever here. If the relationship is causing you more pain than relief, I think it’s perfectly acceptable to pull away. You can bring it up with your friend if it feels worth addressing and if you’re willing to risk not getting the answer or resolution you want, but if the main thing keeping you in the relationship is a sense of obligation, and you leave your interactions feeling worse than before, and if you’ve given it enough time to know it’s probably not just a blip, I’d say back away. You have one life, don’t spend it with people who make you feel worse. Doesn’t mean the friend is a bad person, she’s just not the right person for you anymore. Maybe the relationship will come back around, but it sounds like you’ve been carrying the weight for a while and it’s time to set it down. <3
Communication is the best way to resolve this. She may not understand how you are grieving and what you need from her as a friend. Like another commenter said, the two of you may be speaking different “grief Languages”. The only resolution is to be open and honest about it and have a conversation (without angry feelings, blame, etc.) Anything other than that is assumptions about how the other person feels.
I lost my dad a few years ago and had many friends reach out and support me. Now as some of those same friends encounter losses, I’ve found their grief can be a trigger to me and it’s surprised me honestly. I’ve found it’s really hard for me to show up for them the way they showed up for me. Especially the sheer volume of outreach, presence, etc. I can’t think about their loss without thinking of mine. I carry my grief and with that heaviness, I can’t always hold someone else’s now. This is not to say that you cannot expect more of your friend and even share this with them (!) but thought I would offer my perspective as someone who is trapped on the other side of this coin. Sending you love. I’m so sorry for your loss.
Lennon Flowers, the founder of The Dinner Party, is a former colleague and is amazing. Her own experience with grief inspired her work. An additional resource is the Last Day podcast on Lemonada, also founded by a former colleague: https://lemonadamedia.com/show/lastday/
Grief makes you feel alone and that shit is profound. RIP to my parents, both gone way too soon.
Agree! Some people are not comfortable being around grieving people and wishes you to get over it quickly. That’s not the type of people that we need to be around. It does more harm than good… in my case, anyway. Grief is hard work
I once had a therapist cry in a session when I was at a very low and shameful place and I will never forget her. Someone was grieving alongside me and it made me feel less alone and I thought it was an incredibly human response.
I feel the same. I sobbed to my therapist when my stepfather died, and I said, I’m sorry I know he’s not my dad, and she was like, Joanna, this is a BIG DEAL, and she teared up. It was the most beautiful and human/humane response and I’ll never forget it.
this happened to me this week. my dad is has terminal brain cancer and i was crying to my therapist about how he likely won’t be able to meet my kids one day (whenever i have them) and she started crying to. it made me feel SO much less alone.
Lauren, your comment made me tear up. Beautiful.
My dad died by suicide two weeks shy of my 14th birthday and, 25 years later, the healing of our still existent relationship is such an integral part of my own grief journey. Also, friends and family remembering or acknowledging my grief anniversary has been the single comforting act of love. I just texted my friends thread — can we add grief anniversaries to our list of addresses, kids names and birthdays?! Thanks for these beautiful reflections, Natalie.
I’m so sorry for your loss, Sara. And how beautiful that you are creating that ritual with your friends. Xo
Sara, I also lost my dad this way, it sucks so much and has changed basically everything about my life and who I am. I have two friends who never forget the anniversary, and I am tearing up just thinking about that act of love. From one daughter to another, I’m thinking about you and your dad today. Glad you have such good friends by your side <3
Thank you for this column. With so many federal workers losing jobs and entire sectors disappearing (e.g. global aid work), I would love to see you feature people who have changed careers midway and what that process looked like- both philosophically and practically. Thanks for considering!
Ugh, Laura, great suggestion. We (federal employees) are not okay! (But will be.)
Thanks for this article. After experiencing a devastating loss in my life, I started volunteering with an organization in my community that serves grieving children and their families. It was very healing for me to be amongst folks who talked about grief openly so I absolutely appreciate the work of grief counselors everywhere. <3
this was really beautiful to read, thank you! On a separate note, your ad banners lately have been flashing/moving a lot instead of remaining static. For individuals who have visual/sensory issues it’s really intense. As a decades plus long reader of COJ this makes it hard for me to visit your site.
We will talk to our ad network value this — thank you so much for flagging it, Jen!
I second this and I appreciate the response, Joanna!
Yes, as someone with neurological issues I am finding the flashing and moving very difficult! Thank you for bringing it up.
Jen, I agree. It’s very annoying. I don’t visit this site as often as it’s very difficult to concentrate.
Thank you for bringing your experience of losing your mom to suicide into the light. It really resonated with me. My mom was suicidal as long as I could remember and I carried a lot of shame and secrecy around that, especially when I was growing up. We ended up estranged for five years following the birth of my twins. It really felt like her seeing my interpretation of being a mama was so painful to her. She died two years ago and we had reconnected, albeit briefly, in her last few months of life. I, too, have dreams where I’m spending time with her, recently one of her hiking on a mountain trail with my girls, and it is exactly like spending time together minus the struggle. The other week I was driving in her old neighborhood and I heard her whisper “I’m so proud of you. I’m so proud of you.” Thank you for the space to share. I’m finding that bringing my grief into the light is key for me.
I admit I didn’t know there were specific grief counselors. That’s wonderful. “None of my friends had gone through anything similar; they didn’t know how to show up, and I didn’t know how communicate my needs.” This really resonated with me, because I certainly didn’t know how to help friends going through grief at that age – or even at older ages. My husband’s father passed away recently, the first of either of our parents/siblings, and I’ve noticed that it’s immediately apparent who has and has not yet gone through a loss like this themselves. I certainly will have a different understanding going forward. It’s not that I was unsympathetic, but I didn’t *understand*.
Huge seconds to this. When my dad was diagnosed with cancer last year, there were a scary few weeks where we didn’t know how far the cancer had spread, and a lot hinged on that. I felt like a trapdoor had opened up beneath me into this underworld of grief and fear that had been there all along and would continue to be there even if things turned out okay (which they did). I’m grateful for that time because it taught me what really mattered (even if I now forget it a lot), but it also scared me, because I KNOW that someday I will have to return to that place, that all of us have to go there sometimes. It shook me to my core to realize how such a universal, even “right” (because they SHOULD go, hopefully peacefully and happily, before me, for their own sake) experience could just be so absolutely awful. On some days, I still have a hard time understanding how we as humans cope, every single day, with that kind of loss, let alone worse. One thing that really helped at the time was DEVOURING whatever resources I could find on grief and coping with dying. I realized how taboo the topic is; that how much our society ignores the existence of death is what makes it feel more like a trapdoor than it has to. In many ways, I realized I’d prefer a society where death wove its way into life more often and the dying and grieving weren’t kind of separated from “normal” life or expected to not talk about it except with their very nearest and dearest.
I remember about a decade ago looking around at my beautiful life and my healthy spouse, children, and parents, and thinking: I have been so lucky, I have never had to go through anything very hard, but I know it won’t last. Hard things are coming for us. And within a few years, my husband and I had both lost our beloved dads, relatively young, to cancer. You can’t sit around very often and think about the fact that those huge losses are waiting for you, or you wouldn’t be able to live your life. But they will happen. You now know that in a more visceral way than most, even though you didn’t have to go all the way there this time. I’m glad you still have your dad and I hope you have many more years with him.
Nina, I did the same thing. I bought so many books on grieving because I couldn’t find the support that I needed. I kept hearing a lot of pat answers and I felt so misansdersttod. People have to go through loss to understand it and even then some people grieve a little and some people grieve a lot. I am going through complicated grief and I feel very much alone except for my books.
Beautiful post. I love that this column is here! I would love to see lawyers who work in niche areas of the law featured, female law enforcement, pelvic floor physical therapists, college professors. All these would be fun to read about.
Yes to interviewing a pelvic floor PT! Lifesavers and not enough women know about them and how they can help!
If Cup of Jo interviews a pelvic floor therapist, it MUST be Amy Moses of MOJO Pelvic Health in Memphis (https://www.mojoph.com/). She is a true leader in this area and has helped women heal from all over the region. When I lived there my hippie progressive book club friends had been to her and also my strait laced Baptist church friends – everyone loves her. She has also done a lot of work with women recovering from evangelical purity culture – it is fascinating to learn how this physiologically affects women, and she is a real life line to so many. Three cheers for Amy Moses and her team!
Thank you for this insightful post! I would love an interview of an historian, to help us put what we’re living now in perspective.
Second this!
Heather Cox Richardson, please!
I’m a historian :) Thank you for noticing the importance of that education in today’s society!
Thank you for the work you do. My friend’s 20 year old daughter just died tragically (is there any other way at 20?) and I can’t find sufficient words to say on the phone or in a text because all I want to do is scream and cry about how unfair life truly is.
And that is all you should say. Sometimes validating messages that don’t expect a response mean the most. “I can’t find sufficient words. All I want to do is scream and cry about how unfair life truly is. I’m sorry. I’m thinking of you. No need to reply.” Xx
I lost a dear, young friend. And am close to her parents. I think it may depend on the parents. Things like: my life will now honor her life, she should be here, I hate that she’s not here, I miss her badly and I’m with you — on alternating days, these have felt like honest things to say to them where we all feel less alone (and without feeling like I’m imposing my grief on theirs). But different things could be right vs not as helpful for others. I also recommend “at this still point” and “sanctuary” by Emily rapp black. Intimate and careful writing about the loss of her son. Her books have helped me think about how grief “works” — what we do, how we do it, how we see ourselves and others amidst grief and what of that is honest versus less so, and what frankly felt “real” to her when others extended presence and empathy versus what didn’t hold up (and why). There’s so much in the books — for anybody who wants to more deeply witness — that it’s hard to summarize them. Could not recommend them more.
Thank you, this is beautiful. I’m a new parent and lost my mom a year ago. It’s such a tangled web of grief and joy. The other week, I was about to head out the door to the airport for a really big deal trip (and my first time away from the baby) and I had one of those moments that I sort of hope never fully goes away, where I thought, “oh wait did I not tell Mom about this?” But when I say I hope those moments never go away, it’s because it’s very comforting to know I’ll have moments where my brain thinks she’s still here. It’s obviously sad all over again to realize that she’s not, but it’s the closest thing to feeling outside of or cut loose from linear time.
Ruth, my mom died last summer, and I also have cherished the brief moments when I’ve thought, “I must tell mom about this.” Thank you for reminding me of them here. And this took my breath away — “t’s the closest thing to feeling outside of or cut loose from linear time.” exactly xo
Oh wow. It wasn’t until the 3rd comment in that I remembered that my father committed suicide. I found him and it was actually incredibly traumatic and took me about two years to recover from (without family support and I told no one outside of immediate family.) I’ve buried it deeply I guess. I should probably see someone. I really appreciate you bringing your Self to your work and allowing yourself to react humanely. I now work with traumatized people but still do not know how to keep myself from shutting down internally. It’s tricky!
Sasha, your comment struck me because I also lost a parent to suicide but it something I also almost forget sometimes — as incredible as that might see to others. I also work with folks in trauma and can bury and compartmentalize very well. I’m getting better about being open and using my grief and my story to help myself and help others. I hope you can find someone (or more than one) who you can talk with about your grief and trauma and that that talking it through will bring good to you first, and also good to your community.
If you would be interested in a podcast about the topic of grief, I’ll attach the synopsis: Griefcast is a podcast that examines the human experience of grief and death – but with comedians, so it’s cheerier than it sounds.
All There is with Anderson Cooper is an excellent podcast on grief.
re: coming up with your own saying – anything! other than ‘Sorry for your loss”… Forgive me for putting a humorous spin on that, but one of my favorite parts of Bridgerton was Queen Charlotte’s, “Sorrow…sorrows, prayers.” I spent so much mental energy wondering where they came up with that and wondered if it must have been a historically accurate condolence from the past. PS: off topic, but the prequel “Queen Charlotte” is even better than Bridgerton imo…the young Queen Charlotte is an amazingly talented actress and the story is fantastic.
I am currently finishing my Master’s degree to become a full fledged psychotherapist and I hope that my clients recognize their own humanness and use that as their strength.
Joanna, would you ever consider doing an “Ask a Therapist” series, where someone can write in seeking advice on a specific question or situation? I know therapy is an evolution, but I sometimes feel like I could use a therapist’s words of wisdom on a one-off basis. The usual suspects of time and money are obstacles in accessing support. Sometimes one only just needs a bit of situational help, which makes jumping through the hoops to get it all the more off-putting. Ask a Therapist could help remove some barriers.
Hello… a nice idea. You might like this podcast: “Dear Therapists with Lori Gottlieb and Guy Winch” https://www.iheart.com/podcast/1119-dear-therapists-with-lori-68853191/
This is brilliant! Seconding this!
Beautiful and timely – thank you for sharing! Very happy to see what feels like a slow movement of talented people like Natalie who are moving conversations about grief to a more visible and open place.